Moved from Talk:Geek Feminism Wiki
Maybe we need some kind of Village Pump (Wikipedia equivalent) for general site discussions? Meanwhile, I'll stick a potential topic here: the old "I don't see gender"/"aren't you the sexists here, saying women want different things from men?" etc etc angle. Or is that too Feminism 101? Can we come up with a geek specific aspect to it? (FLOSSPOLS did describe the geek mindset as particularly individualistic and skeptical of claims that individuals are influenced by culture.) Thayvian 07:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Re: a forum, yes, I think the time has come. Wikia has some facilities for setting up forums here. I'll see to it. One of the things I think we need to do in relation to that is change the "welcome" message that comes out, laying out guidelines etc. I'll see what I can come up with and let you know. Re: common myths, yeah, maybe a Myths page? I don't think it's too 101 at all, though I do think that links to the "finally, a feminism 101 blog" would be appropriate. It would be easy to give geek examples for the most common myths. --Skud 19:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Forums: IMHO, having tried them out a bit, the forums are a PITA and I don't like them. I vote we use the Community Portal's "Talk" page for general discussions. We can archive off threads onto their own pages as they need it. --Skud 19:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
Anyone got todo items to suggest? List them here. --Skud 19:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- Vague ideas I've had but not sure what to call them or where to put them: 1) a page listing women who've publicly quit geek communities or activities because of sexism (Kathy Sierra, Telsa Gwynne, Abby Franquemont are 3 that spring to mind); 2) a "hall of shame" where we link topic pages of men whose sexist activities are documented here (how much trouble would we be asking for?); 3) some kind of page about wives and how having one is used as an excuse, eg. "I'm not sexist, because I am married, and my wife says I'm not sexist." I'm thinking something kinda equivalent to He's just like that but more like "My wife says I'm not sexist". I'm sure I've seen it often enough to constitute a pattern. --Skud 08:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Defences of sexism
There's a gold mine in defences of sexism. The most common geek ones I know of are:
- "but it was funny"
- "but it was a compliment" It was a compliment --Pecc (talk) 06:44, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
- "but it was attention getting" It gets attention --Pecc (talk) 06:44, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
- "but it was radical and edgy and pushing social norms" Rebellion --Pecc (talk) 06:44, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
- "but I am biologically compelled to try and have sex with women" Hormones are to blame --Pecc (talk) 06:44, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
- "I checked with a woman and she said..." A woman said it's ok --Pecc (talk) 06:44, October 14, 2014 (UTC)
- "He's just like that"
- "I am post-human and immune to social influences such as the patriarchy, for example" ("I don't see gender!")
- "you're making the community look bad by complaining about this" (aka Harming the community)
We're starting to document these in various places but it seems like we could pull them together somehow too. Thayvian 08:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
- Oh, and there's a similar set of things for geek communities. I've done Free speech already (edit edit edit, it needs examples), but there's also "geeks are oppressed and despised, we're incapable of doing wrong to others", "non-sexist behaviour is a set of bizarre mainstream social codes that geeks cannot comprehend", "if women wanted to be here all they have to do is sign up/download the code" Thayvian 08:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
- I don't have a catchy name for this, but what about when someone voices a very tired, old, cliché sexist argument that has been debunked a thousand times over, and then presents it as a new and revolutionary alternative to feminist viewpoints? You know, when the anti-feminist comes into a feminist community and seems to think that nobody there has ever heard an anti-feminist idea before, like we have all grown up inundated entirely in feminism and anti-feminism is something fresh and new to us. So they claim they are only presenting this anti-feminist view to "shake things up" or "open up our minds to new ideas" or something.
- Another thing is a common straw feminist where a male anti-feminist responds to accusations of sexism with "Anything I say is automatically wrong since I'm a man" or saying that feminists claim that disagreeing with a woman is sexism. They completely ignore all the actual points that feminists make and pretend that the only issue the feminist had was that a man disagreed with a woman.
- Blind you with science 00:02, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
- How about Unearthing arguments of yore? The second one in paragraph 1 is easily a demand that You should be open-minded (with assumption that open-mindedness means paying equal attention to all arguments). Paragraph 2 has facets of Feminists can't be pleased, namely You think men are automatically wrong and You think disagreeing with a woman is sexism. --Pecc (talk) 06:44, October 14, 2014 (UTC)